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August 06, 2004

Swift Boat Vets Credibility

I could say a lot of things about this, but unfortunately due to work commitments I haven't the time.

I will write more about this later, because I have something to say and it is too important to do in haste, or frankly, without taking more time to think it over. I will ask you to read what this gentleman has to say and leave you with a few thoughts:

1. Several critics of the Swift Boat vets have questioned the "timing" of this "revelation". The truth is that they have been trying to get the word out for several months and have been ignored by the mainstream media. Regular readers know that I have written about this. Just something to keep in mind.

2. Other critics have questioned the motivation behind the ad. Is it partisan? Maybe. Perhaps a more important question is: does it matter in the end? These allegations are either true, or they are false - a question only closer examination will reveal. Name-calling and shooting the messenger accomplish nothing, and seem somewhat ironic coming from the very parties who are alleging partisanship. Perhaps a more appropriate response might be to do what the media has steadfastly refused to do to date: look at the facts.

3. Still others have said, "why didn't they come forward earlier"? Looking at some of the things that have been said about these men, would you have been in a hurry to subject yourself to that treatment? I believe they would have preferred to have the media cover the story, as they have covered other stories. That would have left them out of the equation, as I believe they would have preferred. Unfortunately, that proved impossible.

4. To hinge the credibility of the entire Swift Boat Vets organization of that of one individual is ludicrous, unless of course you believe Mr. O'Neill has somehow managed to hypnotize the rest of the vets in this group. Can the entire organization be discredited? How many voices can be shouted down? The credibility of the whole does not rest on the credibility on one person, although I happen to find that one individual believable based on what I have seen to date. I could, of course, be wrong. But for reasons of simple logic, I don't believe that is really germane.

And if indeed Mr. O'Neill has managed to pull the wool over the eyes of an entire group of vets, is it not similarly possible that Mr. Kerry has done the same? It is a possibility that must be entertained if you go down that path. That, to me, is lunacy.

- Cassandra

August 6, 2004 at 07:11 AM | Permalink


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Sounds like a lawyer went over it with a fine tooth comb and agrees with the swiftboat vets.
Dare we say that OTB has fallen off the beam and should we go over to OTB and pummel him with our opinions?

Posted by: La Femme Crickita at Aug 6, 2004 8:52:34 AM

I went over at 5 am this morning and opined.

Dr. Joyner is entitled to his opinion. I could wish he had thought it through or researched it a bit more (perhaps considering the effect of what he said before dismissing them as lunatics - that was, in my opinion, both unwarranted and unnecessarily insulting).

It seemed unlike his normal reasoned tone, but if that is what he genuinely believes, then he is entitled to opine on his own blog.

As usual, I will opine here and it will have zero effect, but I imagine I'll feel better and honor will be satisfied :)

Posted by: Martha Stewart at Aug 6, 2004 3:41:43 PM

You have no idear of the effect you have had on me. I have been digging, and going to websites and reading and thinking. Thanks for all you do.

Did you take Ex-lax brownies? Inquiring minds...

Posted by: La Femme Crickita at Aug 6, 2004 7:20:36 PM

More on the credibility and the article in the Boston globe.

For those of you who've been puzzled by it, check out here:


It's apparently just part of the usual media barrage to demonize anyone who casts less than flattering light upon the Kerry wonder.

I'm going over to www.swiftvets.com and donating. Can't donate much, but they're under unfair attack and they need it.

Posted by: Portia at Aug 6, 2004 7:54:22 PM


Thanks for the link - I really appreciate it. I've been so busy I haven't had time to keep on top of this :)

You guys are great.

Posted by: Cassandra at Aug 7, 2004 7:14:54 AM

What of the things that bothers me most about this whole thing is John McCain. I deeply respect his service to his country while he was in uniform. His attack on the Swifties honor is unconscionable.

When did it become honorable to lie about your military record and dishonorable to point out the lie?

I look at the boy who lost his leg in Iraq and refused to be discharged from the Army, and I cry with pride. I look at Kerry, and I cry that he served under the same flag as the rest of us.

Posted by: RIslander at Aug 7, 2004 4:35:40 PM

Meant to start out with "One of the things." Sorry!

Posted by: RIslander at Aug 7, 2004 4:40:26 PM

As a persons who's family has served in every major conflict since the Revolution. As a person who had family members in Nam, as well as the present conflict. I find that to trust Kerry would meet much the same fate as these Swifties. We will be dishonored and fighting a losing battle in this war on Terror.
Kerry is unsure, unresolute, and wishes to blame everyone but himself. The reality is these men whether for good or bad, point to a major chracter flaw of Kerry's, the lack thereof.

Posted by: randal at Aug 20, 2004 12:30:15 PM

I agree - one of the reasons this is so important to me is that both my family and my husband's are military.

I can also trace ancestors all the way back to the Revolutionary War and they served in every conflict.

This matters. The truth matters. If Kerry is serious, he will counter the evidence put forward with evidence of his own instead of impugning the honor of his fellow vets, as he did in April of 1971 in Winter Soldier.

Evidence is convincing, and Kerry is the only one who has access to his records. Calling people liars with no supporting evidence is not convincing.

It is starting to look as though he has something to hide.

Posted by: Cassandra at Aug 20, 2004 12:55:00 PM

The Swift Vets story is unravelling, this latest information pretty much destroys whatever credibility they had left.


Posted by: Peter at Aug 21, 2004 12:04:06 AM

Nice try Peter:

"For Immediate Release Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow

I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry's report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.
To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other accounts from my shipmates -- there was no hostile enemy fire directed at my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day.

I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day."

The citation for the third Bronze Star had the exact same wording as Kerry's and Thurlow's.

Y'all come back when you have some proof.

Posted by: Purple raider at Aug 21, 2004 12:17:23 AM

Take a good nap. When you wake up, you may realize George Bush is "not" a glorious leader.

Posted by: Shirley at Oct 20, 2004 6:37:42 PM

Nothing like a fact-filled comment filled with with lots of logic to refute the points made in the post, Shirley :)

Posted by: Cass at Oct 20, 2004 6:49:28 PM