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November 09, 2004

Truth And Consequences

In the LA Times, Michael Kinsley takes on the values debate:

I'm a terrible person — barely a person at all, really, and certainly not a real American — because I voted for the losing candidate on Tuesday. If you insist — and you do — I will rethink my fundamental beliefs from scratch because they are shared by only 47% of the electorate.

And please let me, or any other liberal, know if there is anything else we can do to abase ourselves. Abandon our core values? Pander to yours? Not a problem. Happy to do it. Anything, anything at all, to stop this shower of helpful advice.

There's just one little request I have. If it's not too much trouble, of course. Call me profoundly misguided if you want. Call me immoral if you must. But could you please stop calling me arrogant and elitist?

First of all, Kinsley misses the point (intentionally, I suspect). The "arrogant and elitist" jabs have nothing to do with the values debate.  They are a result of the whiny name-calling from the sore-loser contingent. Stop calling us stupid and ignorant and I imagine we'll stop calling you arrogant and elitist.

But why don't we call a truce? Pundits on the left, stop calling red state voters inbred cross-burning homophobic misogynists and admit that there are probably as many reasons for supporting the President as there are red state voters.  If you're feeling really brave, open your eyes to the very real presence of blacks, atheists and agnostics, pro-choicers, and homosexuals in the GOP.

Pundits on the right, stop with the holier-than-thou chest thumping.  Admit that Democrats aren't all HIV-positive thong-wearing Satan-worshipping crack addicts with 11 illegitimate children by 15 different fathers, most of whom are currently doing 3-to-5 in the state pen.  If you're feeling really brave, open your eyes to the very real presence of thinking, rational human beings in the Democratic party.  There is intelligent life in the DNC: the first manned probes returned from Boston with video.

But admit something else, Mr. Kinsley: choices have consequences, and life is never quite as simple as we'd like it to be.  These are home truths the Democrats don't want to own up to:

It's true that people on my side of the divide want to live in a society where women are free to choose and where gay relationships have civil equality with straight ones. And you want to live in a society where the opposite is true. These are some of those conflicting values everyone is talking about. But at least my values — as deplorable as I'm sure they are — don't involve any direct imposition on you. We don't want to force you to have an abortion or to marry someone of the same sex, whereas you do want to close out those possibilities for us. Which is more arrogant?

Liberals love to frame the values debate in terms of choice.  It's not a potential human life: it's a choice.  If you disagree, I can dismiss your opinion because you're obviously a religious whack job.

Choice is such an attractive word: who could possibly oppose having more choices?

In the political arena, liberals do a better job of framing the debate: of packaging the pill for easy swallowing.  In all fairness, they have an easier task.  Liberal ideology is intrinsically positive in nature: Everyone should be allowed to choose.  It's not fair that some people have more than others - let's help the downtrodden. No one should go hungry/uneducated/jobless/unfulfilled.

A few days ago, I posted a conservative credo.  Read it carefully: conservatives aren't against choice. 

We simply believe that choices have consequences.

We have no desire to bear the consequences of other people's personal choices.  We're perfectly willing to bear the consequences of our own choices.  Which leads me to the clever wording of the excerpt quoted above:

But at least my values — as deplorable as I'm sure they are — don't involve any direct imposition on you.

I beg to differ.  If a young girl chooses to have six illegitimate children before the age of thirty, I don't have to raise them, nor do I have to enter the delivery room.  But money is taken from my paycheck to subsidize her welfare check, her state-sponsored health care, her two failed attempts to get a GED, the police who patrol her crime-ridden street where gangs of fatherless boys gather to terrorize the local residents, the juvenile hall her oldest boy ends up in 14 years later. 

I didn't make those choices, but I get stuck with the tab. And I live in a world in which some people work hard and pay their own way, while other people do as they please and have their expenses paid by others.  For a party that claims fairness as its mantra, this hardly seems appropriate.

The prevailing view of the Left is that people ought to be allowed to make choices without facing the natural consequences of those choices. That, in and of itself, might not be objectionable to the Right, if they did not also maintain that it was the duty of all right-thinking people to protect the chooser from facing those consequences.

The Michael Kinsleys of this world portray the Right as harshly judgemental and anti-choice. I don't hate that unwed mother. I don't condemn her. But I'm not sure it helped to subsidize her refusal to face reality.  I wouldn't support that behavior in my own daughter because I understand it's not good for her or her children.

And unlike the left, I'm not interested in telling her what's good for her.  Let her decide that.  And then live with the consequences of her decisions.  I don't think I'm more qualified than she is to make major decisions about her life.  I think she should be in the driver's seat.

The truth is, values are not a cost-free proposition.  The 'values-neutral' approach of the left has real social and economic costs: higher divorce rates, STDs, illegitimacy, single parent families, juvenile delinquency, declining academic achievement.  Look at the destruction of the black nuclear family over the past 40 years for a salutory lesson in social engineering run amok.

The values of the right have costs too: taken too far, they result in intolerance, bigotry, stifling of dissent and creativity, and hypocrisy. 

The problem is not a lack of values on the left, but that, as always, we have competing visions of what America should strive for.  Dale Franks notes:

...both sides are trying to force their moral values on the country. That is, in great part, what politics is all about. Politics is nothing more than the struggle to reinforce culture through the law. And culture, for the most part, is defined by the standards of morality, fairness, and ethics it promotes throughout society.

The problem with moral values is not that one side is trying to impose them, and the other side is not. It is that both sides are promoting a competing--and in many ways, mutually exclusive--moral vision on society.

- Cassandra

November 9, 2004 at 07:34 AM | Permalink

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» I Love Jet Noise On Choice & Personal Responsibility from Right Wing News
Cassandra from I Love Jet Noise punched up a superb response to a Michael Kinsley's whinging about the values issue... [Read More]

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Warning: R-rated rant ahead. I know I should calm down and write intelligently, but I have a cold and feel shitty, and haven't ranted in a long time. [Read More]

Tracked on Nov 10, 2004 11:23:37 AM

Comments

In the immortal words of Richard Nixon, let me say this about that:
I DIDN'T VOTE BASED UPON MY MORAL VALUES!
Got it? I didn't list "moral values" anywhere in my top 50 reasons for voting for George Bush. Clear? I don't give a rat's a** whether Mary and Mary want to get married and have an abortion together. Understand? I don't imposed my beliefs on anyone, and ask kindly that they do the same by me. Capice?

I voted for lower taxes. I voted for stronger support for the military. I voted for tort reform. I voted for a pro-business economic plan. I voted for Bush because Kerry wanted to re-open bilateral talks with North Korea, showing how little he understands about global political strategy. I voted for a renewal of Federalism, where the people of Virginia and every other state have first say in how they are governed at home. I voted for continuing the war on terror in their back yard. I voted for a President and Congresssman who say what they mean and mean what they say.

I didn't vote to impose my morals on you. I voted for the candidate I believe will do a better job in office. Your narcissism is blinding you. Wake up.

Posted by: spd rdr at Nov 9, 2004 8:03:31 AM

Well good morning counselor...feeling feisty?

Scratch a VA Republiscum and you'll find a little "l" Librarian itching to bust out of the closet. There's no keepin' Miss Thang back down on the farm now baby...

If you'll allow me to say so, you're obviously no real conservative. The preceding sounded dangerously like "live and let live" to me.

Allow me to quibble with your position to a point, though I happen to agree with you (and your rationale for voting, as I believe I stated in prior posts).

Support of the military is something of a values issue.

A pro-business economic plan (vs. pro-children, or pro-education, pro-animal rights, or transgender rights, or what-have-you) is something of a values issue.

All of these decision involve making public policy decisions about how our tax dollars will be spent: what priorities do we want our government to focus on, and how much money are we willing to pony up to see them realized?

They involve value judgements: guns or butter? Does the air farce have to have a bake sale to buy F-18's, or will our school children learn in trailers?

Or (more likely) both, since we seem perennially unwilling to confront the true costs of our endless wish lists?

The Left mischaracterizes the Right's "values" debate as religion- and morals-based, when for many of us it is more of a free choice vs. responsibility and economics debate. But we bear some responsibility for that, since we foolishly co-opted the family values mantra in the Gingrich years - I doubt we'll ever live that down.

Posted by: Cassandra at Nov 9, 2004 8:43:01 AM

I am surprised it bothers Kinsley to be called arrogant and elitist. I have not seen or read him in years, but I do remember him on Crossfire (back when people watched it) and he was all that, and a snide, snotty sniveling little bit**.

Posted by: Pile On® at Nov 9, 2004 9:22:48 AM

No one on the Left wants to be called an elitist, Pile.

Remember, they are the Party of the Common Man.

Posted by: Cassandra at Nov 9, 2004 9:25:07 AM

Please tell me you sent this back to him. If not the whole thing, at least the elitist/stupid comment.

It really does strike me as "I may be an elitist but please stop pointing it out."

Posted by: Masked Menace at Nov 9, 2004 9:33:30 AM

Ok, Cass, I'll agree that my decisions are based upon certain personal, but decidedly secular, "values" that I hold true. Could it be otherwise? And I decided long ago that I am not a "real" Conservative, but a Federalist, so I won't be singing from the Jerry Falwell hymn book any time soon. But to equate my value judgments with ignorance is ridiculous and exactly what engenders charges of arrogance on the part of liberal Democrats. Rather than blindly following any dogma, I've immersed myself in the issues. I don't get my information from any one source, but from a hundred sources, and I mistrust every one of them. It seems that the left is so doggedly single-issue that they have lost the ability to think independently and to hold focus on the wide variety of complex issues facing the electorate. The AFL/CIO says vote Democratic or Jose will take your job, and thousands ask no follow-up questions. The NEA says vote Democratic or Bush will force you to teach Creationism, and educated, sensible people stop thinking further. NOW says that Bush will reach into your bedroom, nay, your very womb, and imprison you, and all further logical thought evaporates.

Seems to me that ignorance is holding a mirror.

Posted by: spd rdr at Nov 9, 2004 9:37:16 AM

Peace, bthr rdr :)

You're preaching to the choir - you had me at the first 'praise be', as usual.

I simply tend to view just about everything in economic terms, women being mercenary little creatures by nature... :)

But perhaps that's because there are few things in this vale of tears that do not have costs associated with them, even if they're only opportunity costs.

Almost everything we do is a transaction, all our decisions involve tradeoffs about what we value, and most of the conflicts we get into involve competing visions, not necessarily of right and wrong, but of how much value should be placed on various things.

Any I pity the fool who tries to call you ignorant - if you don't mind I'll just step aside so I don't get splattered in the ensuing carnage :) Even I hesitate to take you on when you're cranky...

Posted by: Cassandra at Nov 9, 2004 9:50:44 AM

...that is, I hesitate...before I charge in recklessly anyway and get my head handed to me.

Luckily I heal quickly :)

Posted by: Cassandra at Nov 9, 2004 9:52:03 AM

You are all right. Quit arguing. I love the post and spd rdr's rant. I agree with it all. I fall in line with Cass's politics on abortion and civil unions I think (though neither is a constitutional issue as I see it), but I didn't vote for Bush b/c of either reason. I refuse to vote for someone just for either of those reasons.

I voted for Bush for these reasons, in this order: War on Terror leadership and all that entails, taxes, does and means what he says. Period.

I reserve my homophobic bigotted sexist womb possessing influenced votes for local politicians.

Posted by: KJ at Nov 9, 2004 10:12:34 AM

I didn't think I was arguing with the rdr... I thought I was agreeing with him, but that's a tricky proposition even at the best of times...

I just saw a distinction there in that values aren't just religious values - they're economic, secular, changing, and above all...subjective.

And they're distinct from morals.

I made my point badly, apparently :)

Posted by: Cassandra at Nov 9, 2004 10:25:19 AM

You took me too literally.

BTW, Cass, libs are trying to portray values like you are an a sad effort to show that they are really not the amoral atheistic anti-Christian devils we know they are:-). They say, eg, "isn't a living wage for a young family a value? Isn't health care for the poor strong values?" etc. I agree that the values at issue in this election weren't just religious in nature, but they were primarily what we think of as religious values -- a respect for the traditional, being able to trust people; etc.

Posted by: KJ at Nov 9, 2004 10:31:42 AM

Plus, the guy was just a poser in a Red Sox cap.
Manny Ortiz, indeed.

Posted by: spd rdr at Nov 9, 2004 11:50:31 AM

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