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October 01, 2004
Debate Recap
Well, everyone's talking about the debate. Who won? Whose debate was it to lose? How much does it matter? Everyone has an opinion. I'm sure you're all just dying to know what I think.
Not surprisingly, I disagree with much of what I've been reading. As usual, my take is a little different (although to be honest I didn't see the entire debate). During the RNC convention, the conventional wisdom was that Zell Miller's speech was the Big Event; I saw Cheney's speech as the more meaningful and substantive. Most of the reaction I saw to Bush's speech was that it was too long and too boring (i.e., not a success), but on balance it wore well with voters and he came out of the convention with a huge bounce.
I think there are always two reactions to televised events like these: the immediate reaction (which is ephemeral and usually unreliable) and the more long-term one, which takes some time to become apparent. I think people need time to synthesize what they see and hear; to compare what they think with what others have to say, and sometimes just to absorb and evaluate. And it's only then that the true picture starts to emerge.
While watching a speech or debate, often we're distracted by surface impressions: hand gestures, nervous tics, a facility with language that glosses over the complete absence of substance. We also inject our own hopes and fears into the event. It's only later that we draw back and analyze more dispassionately; with the surface distractions out of the way, the finer details begin to emerge.
I was pleased to see this morning to see Howard Fineman saying something similar (otherwise I would have had to make something up):
Sometimes you see a candidacy collapse before your eyes on the television monitor in the press room of a presidential debate. At the first one I covered — at UCLA in 1988 — I watched Gov. Michael Dukakis of Massachusetts lose what little chance he had of beating Vice President George Bush.
Bernie Shaw of CNN, a gritty guy who could come at you from weird angles, asked the rather nerdy Dukakis what he would do if he learned that his wife had been raped and murdered. Rather than saying that he would exact bloody vengeance, Dukakis plunged into a monologue about the need to convene a hemispheric summit on drug abuse. I was a few seats away from Tom Oliphant, the mordantly witty reporter for Dukakis' hometown paper, The Boston Globe. "Say goodnight, Mike," Oliphant declared, and lay his head on the table.
It isn't usually that simple. Pivotal moments aren't usually apparent at first glance. They are like an old-fashioned photographic print in a chemical bath; they take time to emerge. Often there isn't a pivotal moment, even a hidden one, so it takes even longer for the press to invent one outright, since drama is what we live on. In 2000, at UMass in Boston, I went on MSNBC after the first Gore-Bush debate and said I thought that Bush had "won" it by not losing it. I was right, as it turned out, but I did not get the real news — which, it became clear after a day or two, was all about The Gore Sigh.
The point is: Without a "say goodnight, Mike" moment, we may not know who "won" tonight's debate until a day or two later.
I'm not sure we saw a "say goodnight, Mike" moment last night.
On balance, Kerry was, as expected, more polished as a debater. Was this really a surprise to anyone? As I said in the comments section last night, I'm not sure voters were expecting George Bush to suddenly morph into Stephen Douglas - he was the man they've known for four years: stubborn, resolute, staying on message, sometimes tongue-tied, but ultimately unshakeable in his convictions. If anyone expected soaring flights of rhetoric from him, all I can say is that perhaps they're from one of those states where the medical-grade marijuana is really primo.
In other words, no surprises here.
Kerry, on the other hand, did better than many expected. He was polished. I have to say I found him ultimately very unconvincing, but I expect that's just me. His answers were vague and made very little sense. At times he, too, stumbled. I thought Bush scored major points on him several times in the substance department. Bush's verbal infacility detracted somewhat from his rhetorical points, just as Kerry's smoothness glossed over his lack of substance and logic. At least initially, Kerry helped himself slightly and Bush probably hurt himself slightly.
An oft-overlooked point: many voters are ill-informed and are swayed more by character than by the issues. For them, likeability is the key:
In the weeks and days leading up to tonight’s debate, every pundit has had an opinion on what the candidates needed to do in the debates. For Kerry, the conventional wisdom was that he needed to prove that he was not a flip-flopper and enunciate a clear vision on the important issues of the day.
True enough. But the biggest hump for Kerry to get over tonight is the likeability hump. Kerry needs to prove that he is not the officious, stentorian bore peddling snooze-inducing and confusing bromides, as his Republican opponents have worked so hard to portray him.
This is not to say issues don’t matter. They do. But the Bush attacks on Kerry have been devastatingly effective because even the issues campaign has been based on personality and character issues. Has Bush -- who continues to get sub-50 percent ratings on his handling of Iraq and the economy -- moved ahead of Kerry in the polls because he has articulated better positions on the biggest issues, or because he has convinced people that the flip-flopping Kerry will say whatever’s politically expedient at the moment?
So where does that leave us? Time. How will this wear with time?
Once the gloss of the debate wears off, once people have time to think about Kerry's message and Bush's message, and the impressions left by both candidates, what do you think the result will be?
I believe the bonus points gained by Kerry's smoothness will prove somewhat illusory. That sort of thing wears off quickly once people start to think about what he really said. They begin to recall his past flip-flops. That's the missing piece as you watch the debate - you temporarily forget the candidate's record - but it's only a temporary effect. This helps Kerry initially, since his record brings flip-flops to mind.
I think any initial dismay over Bush's verbal stumblings will likewise prove short-lived. With time, people are reminded that he's been President for four years now. We don't pay the man to talk - we pay him to act. And in that department, I believe he wins hands-down over John Kerry. His record is solid. He's been tested and had shown himself capable.
Tactically, Kerry had a big burden going into the debates: behind in the polls, he needed to score a decisive victory. I didn't see that happen last night. As the challenger to an incumbent President during a war, he needed to make the case that things are so bad voters need to "throw the bum out". Again, I didn't see that happen. Nor did I see him articulate a coherent vision of how he would succeed where he says Bush has failed.
As with the convention speeches, most people went into the debates with their minds already made up: they're rooting for their candidate. I don't think this one night will change many votes, one way or another. And we have two debates yet to come.
UPDATE: Since I rudely went to a party and missed a lot of the debate (I watched a lot of it afterwards on re-plays), the following folks live-blogged it:
John Hawkins' take: Neither candidate really said anything new to people who have been following the campaign closely, no one made any major mistakes, or scored any big points.
Ed Morrissey: (he surprised me!) I don't think either man did badly, although I think that Bush mauled Kerry about the "coerced and bribed" remark and Lockhart's "Allawi is a puppet". Also, his in-debate reversal on whether invading Iraq is a mistake will get some play. I'd give the edge to Bush, but you know I'm biased.
McQ: I thought John Kerry did well in tonight’s debate. He was well rehearsed, relaxed and pretty clear for John Kerry. Bush was Bush. What you saw was what you got ... but then, that’s one of his strengths.
My gut feeling is the race is going to tighten as a result of tonight.
James Joyner has a nice summary where you can pick up pretty much everyone else who ever live-blogged the debate. "Overall, Kerry was more polished than Bush. We never saw the charming, congenial side of Bush that connects so well with people. We never saw that side of Kerry, but then we never have. I'm not sure at this point who will come away "the winner." It was, though, one of the duller of these debates I can recall. "
Dale Franks: Kerry, I think, did very well tonight. He was much clearer and more focused than he usually is. He did a good job of hitting on what he perceives to be the weak points of the Bush Administration’s conduct of foreign policy.Bush, on the other hand, did a good job of pointing out the inconsistencies of Kerry’s stand on Iraq, and the difficulty of building coalitions with people that you’ve insulted. I think picking a clear winner in this one is very difficult if you’re an undecided voter, and you’ll choose based on your basic political leanings.
UPDATE II: Dean Esmay: Gallup's post-debate numbers for Kerry are terrible. Yes, 57% say he "won" the debate. But look more closely at the numbers further below that assessment.....by taking risks, Kerry opened up areas Bush can exploit over the next few days, while Bush took no risks at all and just hammered home two or three messages people will remember.. [Note: this is a thought I had last night too ] I'm moving even now from thinking it's a minor win for Kerry to thinking it's just a question of whether this is a minor win for Bush, or a huge one.
- Cassandra
October 1, 2004 at 06:57 AM | Permalink
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Comments
I like the phrase "likeability hump". For Kerry I think it is insurmountable. Now...where in one of those states that has the primo medical marijuana?
I am not feeling so good. :)
Posted by: Pile On® at Oct 1, 2004 8:16:40 AM
I, too, am not feeling so good this morning, Pile :)
I spent entirely too much time in the predawn hours trying to decide whether to spell "primo", "primo" or "primeaux", in an attempt to be vaguely Kerry-esque (or recalling my high school daze, trying to recall how we spelled it then :)
Posted by: Cassandra at Oct 1, 2004 8:21:12 AM
Tune in here for all your oblique, inconsequential, and ultimately irrelevant debate commentary...
I should have reset the alarm.
Posted by: Cassandra at Oct 1, 2004 8:22:39 AM
I think giving Kerry a time limit made him more articulate and less prone to drone. This makes him look more decisive and coherent than he normally is. If they'd let him go unleashed, he would have gone into his habit of beginning every single sentence with the word "I" and droning soporifically, which as we know, is the Real Kerry.
I thought Bush spoke with belief. He is not glib, but when he speaks, you believe he believes what he's saying. I just heard someone critique his style with the podium - the guy said that he leaned on it and used it like a shield, where Kerry stood back from it and looked taller and more in command. What I saw was Bush leaning over the podium, into my living room, to tell me that he really means to protect me and my family. He convinced me that he believes in what he's doing, and will bet his presidency on his beliefs. Kerry looked practiced and poised and all that, but I know from watching Kerry that this too, is an act.
Kerry was able to muzzle himself for 90 minutes, which certainly gives the wrong impression. But Kerry is always dedicated to doing what is necessary in the situation. Since I don't believe him, he didn't convince me of anything by briefly containing himself.
Posted by: MathMom at Oct 1, 2004 8:39:10 AM
Ok. I did not kill myself last night. I got up this morning and read the transcript. Not as bad as the live show, but I'm still ticked. Kerry got away with murder. Not a single question about his voting record from the moderator. He got to throw out "I have a plan" and "I can do better" without a single follow-up of "what is it" or "how." And then there's this little gem
"To save for Halliburton the spoils of the war, they actually issued a memorandum from the Defense Department saying, if you weren't with us in the war, don't bother applying for any construction. That's not a way to invite people." If I had been Bush I would have walked over and slugged him.
Posted by: spd rdr at Oct 1, 2004 8:44:10 AM
I think you put your finger on why Bush lost energy during the debate, spd.
He knows it's biased going in, and that has to be wearing on him. And he knows the forum favor the glib, which (let's face it, isn't him).
And despite what the pundits were saying, I thought the fact that this debate was about National Security was a rhetorical minefield for BUSH, not Kerry.
The issue is actually much more complicated than it appears on the surface. The facts are unclear, much of the news has been misreported, and its not easy to set the record straight dureing a few soundbytes in a 90-minute debate.
Kerry got to offer his trademark "it's not good enough" platitudes without offering any solutions.
Bush was left to justify why he couldn't offer "add water, stir for 5 minutes, and achieve peace in the MiddleEast" results. That was a near-impossible task.
I thought he did well not to step on his own crank, quite frankly.
And that's your quote for the day :)
And yes, the moderator was incredibly biased, but you know the public is getting much more savvy about that sort of thing. Do you think that fact was lost on the public?
Posted by: Cassandra at Oct 1, 2004 8:51:08 AM
Boy, sorry for the typing. Severe lack of sleep and headache... next it'll be my speech.
Posted by: Cassandra at Oct 1, 2004 8:52:56 AM
Well, thank you for that quote of the day, I am going to see how many times I can use that today at work.
Kerry did a good job of keeping Bush on the defensive. No, I didn't expect Bush to suddenly become eloquent but I never saw the likeable, positive, optimistic Bush either. He looked tired and irritated and used the same lines over and over.
MM, makes a good point, the time limit with the lights, my have actually served to make Kerry more disciplined.
Posted by: Pile On® at Oct 1, 2004 9:15:21 AM
...which is ironic, since Kerry was trying to have the lights removed:)
Posted by: Cassandra at Oct 1, 2004 9:30:08 AM
I never saw the likeable, positive, optimistic Bush either. He looked tired and irritated and used the same lines over and over.
Honestly, that's about what I expected.
The guy's tired and he has little patience for this sort of thing. I'm not sure he sees it as important in the larger scheme of things. You can argue with that (and many people will) but on the otter heiny, he does have a country to run and Kerry is just flitting around windsurfing - it's not like he's doing his fricking job in the Senate. Bush has the weight of the world on his shoulders right now. I imagine some of this seems a bit frivolous to him - the priorities must look much different from where he's sitting.
Can you imagine what his day is like?
Bush is showing something of what I've seen in senior military officers I've watched come up through the ranks. At some point, they just become overwhelmed by the sheer scope of the job, and things that are important (but not overwhelmingly so) fade into insignifigance. You can't do it all, or at least, you can't do it all well. And you get the thousand yard stare.
And so you have to decide: what's important.
In my mind, the good leaders concentrate on substance - the job. And that's where they put their energies. And sometimes if they're not careful, they fall from power because they're so busy doing the job that they neglect appearances. That's what worries spd, I think. But on the whole, that's the kind of leader I prefer in the White House.
Then you have the kind of leader, for whom the maintenance of power is an end in itself. That type of leader never seems non-plussed when things get rough. But that's because the job hasn't changed much: the goal has always been to stay in power. Their energy is on appearances, so you always get their best side. Whoopie.
Sorry, give me Bush every time.
Posted by: Cassandra at Oct 1, 2004 9:37:47 AM
I have picked my horse, but this is a race. Bush did himself no favors last night. It isn't that his message is right, which it is, or that Kerry, even though well delivered, has a muddled and nonsensical position on Iraq, even though it was "clearly" delivered. It is that Bush missed the debating opportunities.
Kerry sees nukes as the biggest threat? Then why didn't Bush point out that Kerry was in favor of a nuclear freeze while we were winning the cold war? That he authored a "we will not help the Feds in event of a nuke attack" EO as Lt. Gov.?
When Kerry said, "is it better to misspeak or mistakenly take us to war" why didn't Bush say "it isn't what you said - it is what you voted -- not to fund the troops in Iraq"?
There were more when I wanted to push Bush aside and take over, or better yet have Cass step in.
He could have won with a little debating ability and quick thinking. I think he focused too much on his sound bites and let things go. That they were allowed to be let go made Kerry look better.
I thought Bush shined on N. Korea. He clearly knew the facts and argued passionately for his position. In the end, that debate may be over most people's heads because there was no clear inconsistency there with Kerry (even many Democrats can see Kerry's inconsistent statements on Iraq, even during the debate). But Bush won that exchange I thought, and showed nuance and shrewdness in the issue.
Posted by: KJ at Oct 1, 2004 10:12:05 AM
First of all, when you are a 160 IQ, page-at- a-glance reading Bull-honky lawyer (that's you, spd), your world view is going to be different than that of Mr. and Mrs. Podunk Ohio viewers (that's me and mine, folks). I understand spd's frustration that GWB didn't hit the ball out on every opportunity, but I hink that he did fine. Let reality work over the next few weeks. Kerry's squirrels will overplay the outcome of this debate.
Seriously, I think Bush looked tired because he just overdid it yesterday (in Florida looking at hurricane damage). He doesn't travel well. At the next debate, he needs to get plenty of rest leading up to the debate.
I thought Kerry did OK, and I think that MathMom made a very good point about the time limits actually helping Kerry stay focused, on message.
Actually, the clincher for me was AFTER the debate, when John Edwards came on NBC (my wife likes Tom Brokaw, what can I say) and sounded kinda small and snippy. I have never understood Edwards appeal, and last night he just seemed like a little kid among grown-ups.
I eagerely await the VP debate, between the Dickster and 'Kid' Edwards
Posted by: Don Brouhaha at Oct 1, 2004 10:13:00 AM
My biggest concern is with the folks who have yet to make up their minds (hereinafter "Morons"). These are the folks who will just sit there and say "OOOH! He'll create two more divisions! That's nice. OOOH! He'll stop nuclear proliferation! That's nice. OOOH! All play and no pay! That's nice." Bush should have WALLOPPED Kerry on these issues repeatedly. Instead he gave him a pass and talked about how "hard" the job is. I swear I almost lost my mind.
The good news is that the Bush we didn't see last night, the "conversational" Bush, will be onstage at the Town Meeting. And the Kerry we didn't see last night will be too.
Posted by: spd rdr at Oct 1, 2004 10:14:19 AM
I think I can understand spd's frustration. I find watching both speeches and debates incredibly frustrating - I often find myself pacing up and down and even sometimes have to leave the room for a moment, which is strange because normally I'm a calm sort of person. but I care so much about this that it's hard not to get upset :)
Without imputing anything here, I have a tendency to overthink things and I constantly have to pull myself up short and remind myself of the long game. It's just that I've seen enough of these things now to see that often they're tempests in a teapot - it's like that Sabado Gigante metaphor or analogy or whatever (leave me alone, Mrs. Tingle) - the media want to turn everything into the Oracle of Delphi, but in the end it's just one more piece of grist for the mill.
Nothing is going to turn on this one night.
And you know, it's a lot like what I've read about marriage: the very things that annoy you most about your spouse are the flip side of the traits that attracted you in the first place.
Yes, Bush is inarticulate. But he's steadfast. And loyal. And he stays on message. You know what? Reagan stumbled over words all the time too - people made fun of the man mercilessly - you guys forget that everyone thought he was a fricking buffoon. And now he's supposedly a giant. Why? He was steadfast. He stood for something that counted. In the end, that's worth more than all the pretty words in the universe.
It's deeds, not words, that are the currency of history.
Posted by: Cassandra at Oct 1, 2004 10:25:50 AM
Dang spd... I didn't know you had a 160 IQ...
Gee whiz.
I think I'm in love.
Posted by: Cassandra at Oct 1, 2004 10:27:02 AM
By the way, that clever blog princess, Cassandra, also posted something from Dear Mother Jones, which ties in nicely with Kerry's positions last night.
He can no longer be all things to all people, and he is now going to get some grief from his base on the Left (un-appreciated as they are from us Right of center goons), because he actually departed from some of their orthodoxy last night.
Look for some symptomatic upticks for Ralphie -boy in states where he is on the ballot in the next few weeks, as the tin-foil hat brigade becomes dis-enchanted with Senator Kerry.
Let reality work.
Posted by: Don Brouhaha at Oct 1, 2004 10:34:30 AM
Another point spd, and Don touched on this (so did another commenter on another forum I was on this morning).
When you're talking to an audience, you need to keep the message simple if you want it to be remembered. People bag on Bush for being simplistic and repeating, but that's actually an extremely effective communication device.
I'm not trying to flatter you, but you're a bit more sophisticated than the average bear. In public speaking, you need to use small words, speak slowly and simply, and pause frequently. Sometimes that comes across oddly when the listener is capable of processing information at a more rapid rate (as you are). You wonder: is this guy a simpleton?
But keep in mind that the average listener is processing this information at about a 6th grade level. You think I'm exaggerating, but I'm not.
I used to speak in public and always got rave reviews. One reason was that I really did dumb my presentations down: I spoke more slowly, paused often, leaned forward (as Bush did) and made LOTS of eye contact. It makes a difference. It can also make you feel rather Pollyanna-ish - I had to get over feeling self-conscious.
I also found it was distracting to me, as I was speaking much more slowly than I thought, and at times my mind raced ahead of my speech and I would lose track of where I was. That may be happening with Bush. It's not an easy technique to master, strangely enough.
When I speak in public, there is a commentary line in the back of my mind making sarcastic remarks in the background, but hey - if that's what it takes to get through to the audience, that's what you do.
If I'm talking to PhD's, well, that's a different ball of wax. But that's not what Bush was doing.
Posted by: Cassandra at Oct 1, 2004 10:40:57 AM
Don, you are too kind. My IQ is actually calculated as 36DD=(AA)- 4(6+10xM)/ 911,567,883,999,572,856,698,793.49275835
Where (my age squared)minus 4 times (6 plus the number of gallons in Pile On's hat times the average number of mispellings in any single spd rdr post) divided by Michael Moore's daily caloric intake, or 36DD. It's a beuatiful mind.
Posted by: spd rdr at Oct 1, 2004 10:44:42 AM
You've hit the boobie-thon already this morning haven't you spd?
Posted by: Masked Menace at Oct 1, 2004 11:14:31 AM
Cass, I guess I just don't get it. I thought Bush missed golden opportunities, though he had a few. I thought Kerry, while substantively making little sense on Iraq, scored otherwise. I think the style matters here, as you said - 6th graders.
Next debate, I'll try to watch with as stupid an outlook as I can get. I'll get sloppy drunk, surround myself with flirty attractive women, and watch E! all day until the debate. I am not capable of getting any dumber than that.
Posted by: KJ at Oct 1, 2004 11:16:13 AM
KJ, If you can get attractive women to flirt with you while watching a presidential debate, that would take a level of smarts with women that would put Mr. On to shame.
Posted by: Masked Menace at Oct 1, 2004 11:29:59 AM
Gee Menace... what was your first clue???
KJ, I'm confused. I didn't say Bush didn't miss any opportunities.
Where did Kerry score on substance? The only place I thought he scored was on not looking like as big a boob as he usually does. But I don't know how much one night of that is going to outweigh his entire record so far.
What I'm saying is that I think most people went into this with their minds made up. People are pretty polarized in this election: the myth of the "swing voter" by and large is just that: a myth. I think most people already know how they're going to vote.
Polls are mostly a waste of time: the questions are biased and the wording presupposes the answer.
I already said I don't think Bush did as well as he could and Kerry did better. But I don't think he did as well as he needed to: he had a big hurdle to overcome, and I don't think he made it.
Just my opinion: it's not like I'm an expert. But FWIW, now that the early CW is coming out, most people are starting to say either narrow victory to Kerry or draw, and in my book, that's still a victory for Bush unless something happens to change that. He's the candidate to beat. He's the incumbent and has the home team advantage.
Posted by: Cassandra at Oct 1, 2004 11:35:03 AM
Mr. On is invited, but your logistical point is well taken. To get attractive women to flirt with me during a presidential debate, I will probably have to rent a VIP room with a TV at a "gentlemen's" club.
Posted by: KJ at Oct 1, 2004 11:35:30 AM
Yes you did Cassandra. You said Bush "didn't miss any opportunities -- to lie to the American people." You said "Iraq is a quagmire - but let's put the best spin on it we can." You said "Jet Noise readers are dumber than a box of hammers." You said "Republicans are corrupt, but let's never tell the public." You said "I will destroy Kerry by telling nothing but lies about him." You said, "I think libertarians are too cool, but I long for a Democratic newsman."
And I have the documents to prove it.
Posted by: Dan Rather at Oct 1, 2004 11:40:48 AM
Oooh KJ, can I come to your next debate party? Sounds like a good time.
Not to keep piling on Bush, but I got really frustrated when Kerry was saying Iraq was a great diversion from the real mission of hunting down OBL in Afghanistan. I was yelling at the tv, for Gods sake Mr. Kerry, you don't think our military is competent enough to hunt down a handfull of people in the mountains of Afghanistan AND fight in Iraq? That sends a strong message of strength to any other rogue nations that might want to cause trouble. How on earth did we ever fight in the Pacific against Japan and in europe against Germany? This was a golden opportunity to praise our military and instill confidence in the morons.
Posted by: Pile On® at Oct 1, 2004 11:43:46 AM

